Genesis 18: 25-32

25 Then the Church approached God and said: "Will you really torment people in hell forever and ever? 24 What if a person longed for your redemption (though she did not know you or that you offered it) fifty times in her life? Will you really sweep her away and not spare her? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing to kill the seed of longing, though it is small, along with the wickedness? Treating her righteous longing and her wickedness alike? Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

26 The LORD said, "If I find fifty instances of longing for redemption, I will spare the whole person for the sake of the seed."

27 Then the Servants of Christ spoke up again: "Now that we have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though we are nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of times they have sought you is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole person because they're short five times?"

"If I find forty-five there," God said, "I will not destroy them."

29 Once again the Body of the God-Man spoke to God, "What if only forty are found there?"

God said, "For the sake of forty, I will not do it."

30 Then The Children of Abraham Who Came From the East and the West said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let us speak. What if only thirty can be found?"

God answered, "I will not do it if I find thirty."

31 Those Whom God Knew Before the Foundations of the World said, "Now that we have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found?"

He said, "For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy them."

32 Then The Bride of Christ said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let us speak just once more. What if only ten can be found?"

He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy them."

This, of course, is not the actual texts found in Genesis 18. The actual scriptures tell the story of Abraham "bargaining" with God over the fate of the city of Sodom. God had revealed that Sodom would be destroyed "with fire and brimstone" because of the "great wickedness" found there. Abraham's argument was that God should spare the city for the sake of the few righteous people found in Sodom, so Abraham asked, "What if there are fifty? Forty-five? Forty?" and so on. Abraham ended with the number ten, and unfortunately for Sodom, there were not even ten people in the city who were righteous. The city was indeed destroyed - though angels were sent to "evacuate" the righteous.

My "unauthorized version" of these texts are based on recent conversations with different folks concerning the topic of hell. I can't help but find it deeply distressing when people seem to want there to be a hell. I do not know the motivations, so I do not intend to belabor the "wherefore and why." It simply is distressing.

As for myself, I hope that all will be saved.

This is not to say the evil that (we) they have done or become should be saved - may evil be damned to hell forever and ever! But the life that comes from God - that creation so tenderly and thoughtfully formed by God - may that never be lost!

I guess I just wonder if Abraham could bargin with God over a couple of cities, why the Church couldn't plead for mercy for those it claims will be lost to hell?

I'm not arguing there is no hell. I know people living in it right now. Furthermore, I'm not arguing that evil should not be purged. I'm simply saying that I serve a God who once said, "As surely as I live, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked!" For that reason, I find it difficult to becoming passionate about the existence of a eternal, tormenting hell for people.

I long for the redemption of all of creation and hope Scripture is right when it says,

"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

posted by Headless-in-GR @ 7/16/2005 07:31:00 AM

 

Comments:

Haloscan said it had my comments...but I think it ate them...so, sorry if this is a repeat...but it was in reference to other comments in haloscan...so read those comments first.

______


I disagree. Grace is not hard to accept. It is easy; it takes faith, that's all. It doesn't take effort, or works...it is not hard to attain.

"God must have made a mistake." We don't deserve it, so how can it be real? How is this universe ordered? How can I possess something which has such great value that I haven't merited? Answer: it was a great exchange.

Now, whether we deem ourselves worthy or not, God's judgement is no longer against us. So the burden of faith (our yoke) is light. Why add to that burden something as unnecessary as self-condemnation? The burden is easier if it comes from God; and not from me trying to raise my load standards above those of God...just to prove the impossible...or placing my peace in jeopardy because I want to assign myself to God's seat in my soul. But laughter, instead, comes from the impossible...it comes from our immanent salvation and redemption.

'my yoke is easy, my burden is light.'
That is, in my mind, "the laughter of the Trinity."

# by:  Steve : 12:37 PM

 

That rascally old haloscan!!!!!

So Steve, it is really good that you can accept grace easily. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm for real.

I find it really hard to accept grace because most of the time when it comes to me, it asks me to change, and though I love the comfort grace brings - and hate to see it go - I find myself in pain when I hold grace close to me. It is comfort and pain all at the same time.

Like Mr. Newton said: "Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved." For me, this is an ongoing reality - fear, relief, fear, relief...

As for the reality that others receive grace when I think they ought to "get what's coming to them" - hey, I'm not immune to this. And I think, SpookyRach, that this is an awesome question.

I'll have to ruminate on it!

# by:  Headless-in-GR : 2:33 PM

 

Ha!

I tried to put that quote on my blog, but it never showed up! The quote "it is the glory of God to conceal..."

Duh! I put it on the comment section! HAhah!!

i'm a dork.

# by:  Headless-in-GR : 2:46 PM

 

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